Chai Brady
10 years on it is a strange but privileged vocation to be a bishop nowadays, Archbishop Eamon Martin tells Chai Brady
The Primate of All Ireland and Archbishop of Armagh was one of the last bishops to be appointed by Pope Benedict in January 2013, he says someone quipped that the former pope then “took the honourable step and resigned”.
The Derry-born Archbishop Eamon Martin was installed coadjutor in Armagh in April 2013. The appointment straddled the reign of two popes, as in February of the same year Pope Francis was elected. It wasn’t until Cardinal Seán Brady resigned that in September 2014 Archbishop Martin officially became the Archbishop of Armagh. Ten years later, The Irish Catholic caught up with him to talk about the past, present and future of the Irish Church.
“There’s never a dull moment,” Archbishop Martin says, when asked about his experience of the last decade as an archbishop, “it’s really been an era of change, and a change of era – most definitely a change in the Church in Ireland and indeed in the universal Church under the pontificate of Pope Francis”.
An example of this ‘see’ change is reflected in the switch of the episcopal guard, with only three bishops still in the conference since Archbishop Martin started. He has since been elected three times as President of the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference. Twenty-four Irish bishops have retired or died in just over the past decade – a complete switch in the pastoral leadership of the Church.
Looking to the future, in the next 10 years, by 2034, there will be some significant anniversaries. Perhaps most notably the 200-year anniversary of Catholic emancipation in 2029.
Archbishop Martin says: “That 200-year period has seen the Catholic Church in Ireland rise up after the penal times, really explode in terms of missionary outreach, vocations to the religious life, vocations to the priesthood, the whole rebuilding of a parish structure and diocesan structure.
The Church faces a very different reality, in order to ‘allow new shoots to emerge, new ways of being Church – whilst faithful to the Catholic Church, which is one, holy, Catholic and apostolic’”
“Then Ireland becoming a deeply missionary Church, sending people all over the world, into English speaking countries to help them with vocations, but also to places in Africa and Asia.
“Then from around the 1950s-60s, we’ve seen a contraction of that again.
He adds that it is “very, very interesting that by the time we reach 2029, I have no doubt that we will be probably turning the page on that particular chapter in the life of the Church in Ireland. So I see my role and the role in this new bishops’ conference as in some ways allowing this transition to happen”.
For Archbishop Martin it is the time to let go of the past, as the Church faces a very different reality, in order to “allow new shoots to emerge, new ways of being Church – whilst faithful to the Catholic Church, which is one, holy, Catholic and apostolic”.
Aided by the synodal pathway, and still noting anniversaries, he would like to see 2032 as a year to celebrate something new for the Church in Ireland as it is the 1,600-year anniversary of St Patrick bringing Christianity to Ireland.
Synodality is nothing new for the Irish Church, with Archbishop Martin saying the bishops announced the Irish synodal pathway before Pope Francis announced his synodal journey. “So in some ways, Pope Francis gate-crashed the Irish synodal pathway,” he says, “but actually it’s a lovely thing for us because we’ve been able to situate our synodal pathway in a much broader context because of the conversations on synodality that are happening just as we speak now in Rome”.
I do feel that the synodal conversations, whilst small, they are significant, because they are allowing a lot of people to talk about their faith”
“So I would see this synodal journey for us as really trying to say, ‘how are we going to keep the faith alive in Ireland?’ I think there is a really strong group of young adults who are interested in their faith and who will be very vital collaborators with the clergy, with the religious, and with the bishops in being, I suppose, midwives to deliver something new for the Church in Ireland and I see this entire decade of the 20s as being the time for that reflection, and I do feel that the synodal conversations, whilst small, they are significant, because they are allowing a lot of people to talk about their faith.”
Archbishop Martin mentioned a recent gathering of people in Newry, young adults in their 20s and early 30s, who spoke about the importance of their faith and were “really crying out for formation and for permission to be instruments of the growth of the faith”. He insists that while this event was small, it’s happening all over the country.
Faith not buildings
With the decline in Mass attendance and many people moving away from the faith, and more and more empty churches, even on Sunday, the archbishop stresses the answer to this may be painful but there is a need to let go.
“I envisage the Church in Ireland during this decade probably increasingly allowing things to move on, to let go of some of the things we have had, but hopefully let God determine and the Holy Spirit lead us along the path that the spirit wants us to go,” Archbishop Martin says.
“I’m very hopeful about the future but I do realise there is a lot of pain in letting go, there is a lot of worry. You look at the maintenance of buildings and huge churches and the expenses… financially the Church is going to be very, very poor – not to mention the impact of paying the just compensation to people who’ve been abused.
“We’re going to find that some parishes, some dioceses perhaps even, are not going to be able to survive financially, and that’s a whole new challenging landscape for us to inhabit.
“But remember the Faith, and the passing on of the Faith, is the really important thing, not the buildings, not the structures, but ensuring that the next generation of Irish people believe in God – you would never have believed that the Archbishop of Armagh would be saying that to you, but that is the reality that we are facing,” he says.
Diocese of Dromore
Significantly Archbishop Martin has spent half his tenure looking after two dioceses, as five years into his time leading Armagh he was asked to become apostolic administrator of the Diocese of Dromore. The diocese has been attempting to assist and compensate survivors of abuse for several years under its redress scheme, with Archbishop Martin at the helm.
Because of the particular circumstances in Dromore, the archbishop says that “even though it’s slightly different to some of the other [diocesan] situations where they have formally moved to amalgamate at this point, I think the Holy Father’s preference is to allow me to continue this role overseeing the Diocese of Dromore”.
“We’ve built a lot of collaboration now into the workings of the two dioceses, maybe someday the two dioceses will formally amalgamate but I don’t know, at the moment because of the particular circumstances there they want me just to run it as a second diocese, which is challenging, but it’s also very rewarding because you see a different diocese at work.”
Amalgamation of diocese
It is clear that the Pope’s representative in Ireland, Papal Nuncio Archbishop Luis Mariano Montemayor – who began his ministry early last year – sped up the process of bringing dioceses closer together. This can be seen in the effective merger of the Archdiocese of Tuam and Killala and that of Elphin and Achonry in the west of Ireland, which is considered the largest ‘shake-up’ in diocesan structure in over 900 years.
Regarding the future of Irish dioceses, many of which are already working very closely together, Archbishop Martin thinks different models will emerge depending on the circumstance.
We’re dealing with an entirely new episcopal conference now, and therefore, I think the bishops of Ireland are now much more open to recognising that change can happen – and in some cases should happen”
“I see that sort of rationalisation of resources continuing. I’m not too sure if we have yet properly thought it through. In some ways it’s happening when a diocese becomes vacant that conversations begin. The Dromore situation is different to the situation in say Galway and Clonfert, which is in turn is different to the situation in Tuam and Killala,” he says, adding that already good work has been done looking at the structural changes at home within the Church in Ireland.
The archbishop asserts he would prefer that what emerges is what is best for evangelisation and that Irish dioceses are not treated like a “big jigsaw”.
“I’m hoping that our ongoing synodal journey and the synodal pathway for the Church in Ireland will enable a lot of that thinking to come through,” he says.
“We’re dealing with an entirely new episcopal conference now, and therefore, I think the bishops of Ireland are now much more open to recognising that change can happen – and in some cases should happen. I think that this Papal Nuncio [Archbishop Montemayor] has come in and said, ‘OK, we need to start doing this now and as opportunities arise, it is an opportunity to take another step’.”
Archbishop Martin insists that for a long time Irish bishops have accepted that there does need to be change – but when the moments arise.
He says that really what he would like to see in the future of Irish dioceses is “a better and a deeper discussion” about what might be our criteria here? What different models can we look at and can we use? It’s a hard thing to do is to change”.
“I take for example, looking at the situation in Dromore, it’s difficult for a diocese to say, ‘we’ve been around for 1,000 years, are we going to lose something of our distinctiveness or our identity as a diocese or as a local particular church?’
“And those conversations do need to happen, particularly when we’re talking synodally nowadays. But sometimes it does take somebody to come in and say, ‘let’s do it now, we need to take these decisions now’.
While parishes and even governments are restructuring, Archbishop Martin says “I would hate to think that there’s an automatic decision as soon as the diocese becomes vacant that it has to amalgamate; because remember the role of a bishop is as a pastor of his people, as a shepherd for his flock”.
So while rationalising something administratively or financially, or in a management way, he says he would “hate to think It would take away the closeness between a bishop and the bishop’s flock. There are issues there which we have to grapple with and will continue to do, so this conversation is already happening and I think it’s welcome”.
Synod
Archbishop Martin acknowledged that “engagement with the synod has been moderate, and in some cases very small….”
He says: “If you asked me to give you a word that would characterise the Church in Ireland in the next decade, I think it is going to be small. I think from those small beginnings a new chapter will emerge. The Church will be small but hopefully a very significant voice for people in Ireland and we know there will be a need for this because as people in Ireland have drifted away from their Faith they are beginning to realise the implications of that for their lives. They are beginning to realise that particularly in the brokenness of today’s society – that they need God, they need faith. That is something that I’m beginning to experience; people returning to faith, or for the very first time in their lives realising they need God in their life.”
I’ve said it to a lot of my friends in the pro-life movement, that they should not go away, we need to keep pronouncing the Gospel of life and that is Good News”
The archbishop says that some people feel they are doing quite well without Faith “until something in their life confronts them with the emptiness, the meaninglessness, or purposefulness of living today without faith in God”.
“It’s into that space that we will send the new teachers, the new adults, the new young people, and the new clergy and religious to reignite the flame of faith in people’s hearts,” he states.
Pilgrims of Hope
Marked every 25 years, the jubilee year is a time of dedicated prayer to re-establish a relationship with God, with 2025’s theme being ‘Pilgrims of Hope’.
In the same vein, Archbishop Martin says that around the country it is planned that the next phase of the Irish synodal pathway will more than likely taking place next autumn, “which will be a big moment”.
He explains: “It will be a kind of a pre-assembly because we’re committed to holding a National Assembly for the Church in Ireland in 2026, so the hope would be that next autumn, as part of the Jubilee that we would have the pre Synodal Assembly.”
Looking at the aim of the 2026 Synodal Assembly, Archbishop Martin says: “One of the things that is emerging in our conversations is that we need to select some particular theme so that we can hear from the people of Ireland on it. And at the moment, there are a number of things that are emerging, for example education is one potential, or how to support the sacramental preparation of our young people because we’re so reliant on a school-based system: What’s going to happen if we don’t have Catholic schools so how can we engage with that in parish? Handing on the faith to our young people?”
But he says that the whole point of the pre-Synodal Assembly is to allow the theme to come from the ground.
“If we’re going to have a really worthwhile National Assembly we need to choose a topic, we’re not going to cover everything. Otherwise, it’ll be a bit of a skim through of stuff. We need to choose a topic. Let’s say, for example, Catholic education. And then we need to engage on the ground with people over a whole year on that topic and bring it to the assembly and then have the fruits of that. So I think we’ve learned all this already through our synodal pathway,” he says.
Culture of death
Focusing on the changing trajectory of Morals/culture in Ireland, Archbishop Martin says that it is very difficult to change a culture, and one of his greatest regrets is seeing the repeal of the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution in 2018, allowing abortion to be legal in the Republic of Ireland.
Looking back over his years as archbishop he says that “one of my greatest regrets in the last 10 years is to see the way the abortion referendum went through and then how quickly the numbers of abortions in Ireland have escalated and how the conversation and the discussion has moved off the agenda, and how easily people appear to be accepting this as part of the new culture of the new Ireland”.
“I do believe that deep down people will not buy it. I think that society will continue to project it, but I believe that it can be reversed. I’ve said it to a lot of my friends in the pro-life movement, that they should not go away, we need to keep pronouncing the Gospel of life and that is Good News,” he says.
The number of abortions in the Republic of Ireland risen to more than 10,000 in 2023, according to Government statistics, a figure that has risen by large amounts each year since legalisation.
Regarding the new push for assisted suicide across the island of Ireland, Archbishop Martin says: “To me that’s just another inevitable outcome of a culture that moves away from life towards a culture of rampant choice.”
I do feel that the Catholic Church, and indeed all of the churches in Ireland, will have to continue to speak into that darkness, that there is the light of Christ, which is the light of life”
The archbishop has said that any legislation allowing assisted suicide should be strongly opposed and constituents across Ireland should contact their local MP or TD to express their commitment to protecting life.
“Increasingly nowadays people are beginning to see the awful reality of being bombarded by bad news, by aggression, by violence, by war, by loneliness, depression, anxiety, people not able to cope, young children struggling with addictions – that’s the reality of a society that has moved away from a culture of life,” Archbishop Martin says.
“And I do feel that the Catholic Church, and indeed all of the churches in Ireland, will have to continue to speak into that darkness, that there is the light of Christ, which is the light of life.”
He adds that this is why he does his best to attend pro-life marches and accompany those who are continuing, against the odds, to teach that “beautiful message, that every life is precious, every life is sacred”.
Catholic education
Some extremist Irish politicians have called for the abolishment of faith-based schools, proposing a one-size-fits-all model with ethos dictated by Government – whatever their standards of ethos may be at the time.
Speaking about the positives of Catholic education, having been a teacher of maths and religion in St Columb’s College – with a degree in Mathematical Science and also in Divinity – and then subsequently becoming head of religion and then principal, he says: “I’d be very passionate in believing in Catholic education and its availability for those parents who wish to have their children educated in a Catholic or faith-based environment, and for that reason I feel that we are at a very important watershed moment when it comes to say the Church’s involvement in education.
“There’s no doubt that there are huge pressures on the Church, particularly in the Republic of Ireland, to divest a lot of the primary schools from their patronage, and that is something that I feel we’re open to. However, within that I do feel that we’re very anxious to maintain Catholic schools as an important element in a diversity of choice for parents. I don’t think there’s any desire within the bishops, for example, to have a monopoly on education either North or South of the border.
“However, we are very passionate, we deeply believe in a Catholic ethos and in a faith-based education, and I feel that so do a huge number of parents.”
Archbishop Martin says that it is “rather strange” that despite the fact that there’s been such a drift away from practise of the faith, from the sacraments, and with such a negative portrayal of faith and religion in Ireland, “people still value churches and the faith presence in education”.
It’s a very internationally recognised right for parents to have their children educated in a school with an ethos of their choice”
Regardless, he says: “I think it’s going to change, but I feel that it’s up to us to show what Catholic ethos really means. I think our parents know it because they don’t want to give it up. Every time we’ve gone to parents and asked them about the possibility of divesting the schools, they said ‘No, we want the faith-based ethos. We want a Catholic school.’
“Now, that may change, and it’s likely to change in the next decade or so, but I do feel that there should be a space for a highly committed Catholic ethos in enough schools for those parents who wish to choose that. It’s a very internationally recognised right for parents to have their children educated in a school with an ethos of their choice. I think one of the big threats at the moment to the Catholic ethos is coming from those who don’t even believe in the parent’s right to choose, which is a rather unusual thing.”
Hostile politicians
Archbishop Martin said there is a disconnect between the ideology of some political thinking and the feelings of a politician’s constituents, he explained: “It’s a strange thing that the ideology is ‘well we shouldn’t have any influence of faith or religion or Church in our school’ but on the ground they know that parents value this.”
“Parents, they might not be able to describe what it is, but they know their children are valued, that the dignity of their children is valued – the pastoral strengths of our Catholic education system are very strong. Our teachers are excellent, albeit I do feel the Church has an obligation now to form its teachers for Catholic ethos and its principles.
“The Catholic school system is valued but it needs resources and it needs an injection of formation for the teachers and for the principals – not that all of them want this – but for those who do, to be able to maintain the ethos of the school.”
United Ireland
It could easily be said that one of the more challenging occurrences during Archbishop Martin’s tenure was Brexit in 2016, which once again roused huge tensions between communities in the North.
Archbishop Martin says it “drove a wedge into the middle of Ireland in many ways, and it reignited a lot of ill feeling and difference within our communities”.
When asked about the possibility of a united Ireland in the next decade, he states: “Well, I’m not so sure about the next 10 years, but certainly the conversation is alive and well.”
Ecumenism is at the heart of these discussions, particularly when it comes to questions about a border poll or a united Ireland.
Archbishop Martin says his relationship with the other Christian Church leaders on the island of Ireland “very, very important to me”.
I really do feel that a united Ireland in the sense of united harmonious sharing is one where we will have those relationships matured”
“I have worked very hard at this. I have given a lot of time to building relationships with my Church of Ireland counterpart here in Armagh, initially Richard Clarke, now John McDowell, with the Presbyterian moderator, the Methodist president, with the President of the Irish Council of Churches and I think that we together have grown deeply in our understanding of each other and of the people we serve.
“I really do feel that a united Ireland in the sense of united harmonious sharing is one where we will have those relationships matured. I am a nationalist myself and I believe that at the moment it is very important to open up the conversation about what a united, shared Ireland would look like, and how we accommodate those who have different political and cultural backgrounds, not to mention of course, the massive number of new Irish who are also to be part of the united Ireland.”
He pointed out that during an ecumenical visit to Brussels, all of the Christian churches on the island of Ireland are all-island churches. “So we don’t see the border from the point of view of faith. And I think the church leaders could have a very significant part to play in the conversations about relationships,” Archbishop Martin says.
“So if you think, for example, when Brexit happened, a lot of people in the Catholic community, nationalist community, republican community, felt in some ways that they had been cheated by Brexit, interestingly enough, the more I have had conversations with my brothers and sisters in the other Christian traditions, I realised that they say in the Windsor framework that they’ve been cheated in terms of their belonging to the union. So somehow it’s through those conversations that we learn about each other’s perspectives.”
Archbishop Martin mentions the controversy surrounding the service organised by the Christian churches reflecting on 100 years since the North’s partition in 2021 – which notably the President of Ireland Michael D. Higgins refused to attend – which he says honoured all narratives respectably.
He says: “It turned out to be an important moment for people to reflect. If we’re going to have a shared island, and I hope one day we will, then we will have to take with us the understandings, the cultures, the attachments that people have to the union and how we do that within a shared Ireland.”
Border Poll
Asked about a border poll in terms of the Good Friday Agreement, Archbishop Martin says: “I think the Good Friday Agreement asks for that conversation to happen with regard to how and when a border poll will be held. I think that at the moment, if you look at the relationships, we’ve just literally got a fledgling [Stormont] assembly back up and running, we have a new government in Britain, we have elections coming up in the Republic of Ireland, we have a new commission being established in Europe – I think this is not the time for a border poll. However, I think the conversations towards having some decision-making about this issue can begin and have already begun.
I think the front loading before a border poll is much more important to do than to try to pick up the pieces after you’ve held one”
“I think the churches could be part of the conversations because one of my big regrets is that at the moment it’s extremely difficult for a Northern unionist or loyalist to become in any way associated with the conversation about a shared island. So you would question whether or not this is the time to be to be springing a border poll.
“We saw in Brexit, if you hold the poll before you’ve had a discussion about the implications, you’re into chaos. We’re in the situation that we’re eight years following the Brexit vote and people are only now beginning to realise the implications of having voted for Brexit. I would hate the same thing that happen over a border poll. Therefore I think the front loading before a border poll is much more important to do than to try to pick up the pieces after you’ve held one.”
Abuse
Regardless of all else, Archbishop Eamon highlighted that in his ministry, almost on a daily basis, he is dealing with the aftermath of abuse.
He says: “For me, one of the most heartbreaking experiences is meeting the survivors of abuse in the Church and realising that the impact of that is long lasting, traumatic and we are still nowhere near through it.
“Meeting with abuse survivors has been one of the most difficult things but also one of the most privileged moments in my life as a bishop. Very, very painful but very, very privileged that people are even speaking to me after what they have been through.”
Archbishop Martin aims to keep survivors of abuse at the forefront of the new synodal pathway. He also wants to protect life from conception until natural death, ensure children are given solid education through a Catholic ethos despite cultural adversity, inspire young people looking for meaning, and overall, keep the fire of faith alive in Ireland.